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This story isn't about an insurance situation, but a guy I encountered one day while on the road in my territory. I had an appointment near downtown San Diego and for lunch decided to run by the U.S.S. Midway, an aircraft carrier which is now a floating museum. I wanted to pick up a brochure for a future trip with my family to visit the big ship.

While walking from the ship back to my car a very agitated black guy came across busy Harbor Drive pulling a large rolling suitcase...against the light. Cars were having to brake to avoid hitting him. As he passed me he walked out onto the boat dock, picked up the large and obviously full suitcase, and threw it as hard as he could into the bay. He then muttered various obscenities, crossed Harbor again against the light (I thought for sure he was going to get hit) and headed back up Broadway. Somebody wasn't going to have their favorite traveling jammies that night.

My best guess, based on what I could made out from his muttering, is that somebody mistook him for a bellboy at one of the nearby hotels (the U.S. Grant is just up the street). Insulted, he took the suitcase from the person and once they were out of sight chucked it into the bay.

Very entertaining. Insurance work wasn't all boredom and idiot managers.

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Almost every year I would get a card or a call from a pastor whose church was located about as far away from my office as you could get and still be in my territory. In fact, it was just a few miles from Yuma, AZ. I had traveled to that community before to take photos of an existing client out there, and I was all set to go visit this guy's church until I spent a little time with him on the phone and discovered some interesting things about his operation.

Yes, he had a religious nonprofit church out there, but as it turned out the corporation that owned the church also owned a truck stop, a motel, some office buildings, and various other things around that tiny town. Given that the insurance company had no experience or desire to insure those kinds of risks I cancelled my trip out there and told the guy I couldn't help him. That didn't stop him from not only sending in marketing mailers from the company every year, but calling the main office and complaining that I wouldn't help him. The home office would call my boss demanding an explanation, my boss would talk to me, I would explain the situation...again, and the round-robin would head back to the the desert entrepreneur.

This probably happened five times in nine years. I was getting pretty sick of the guy, and pretty sick of the company's inability to take him off the mailing list. I'm sure my replacement is still getting calls from the guy and the company is still demanding why we won't insure him. Neither were very bright sometimes.

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I was having lunch with the pastor of a church and we were talking about his plans for a new church complex on some raw land they owned. We got into the environmental impact issues he was fighting and he told me a couple of stories.

One day some enviroweenie showed up at the property to inspect it to see if there might be some sort of special habitat there that couldn't be disturbed. According to the enviroweenie the property "looked like it could be habitat for an endangered butterfly". The pastor asked if any such butterflies had been found and was told no, but they could be there. The pastor then asked "what kind of birds eat those butterflies?" The enviroweenie demanded to know why the pastor needed that information, and he told them that he was going to "buy a couple boxes of them and turn them loose on the property". The enviroweenie was aghast.

He also told me of another church in San Marcos that had bought some raw land for a new church complex and were advised by their attorney that the moment the sale was complete to take a grader and scrape every living thing off the land. Every bush, every tree, every gopher hole. Don't get a permit or ask anyone for permission - just do it. The attorney told them that if they didn't clear the property immediately some enviroweenie would try and claim that the land was habitat for some critter or another and they'd end up in court for years trying to fix it. It was better to risk a small fine from the city for grading without a permit. And that's what they did.

Sometimes it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.

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I've spent 35 years dealing with pastors as a member of a traveling music ministry, and nine years in the church insurance business. Most of the men I've dealt with have been great guys, dedicated to their churches and their ministries, humble and full of God's love. However, every now and then I've run into some guys who clearly were unsuited for the job. God must not have been paying attention if in fact he called these guys into ministry.

Such was the case with a pastor I dealt with in a Baptist church south of San Diego. I'll call him Pastor Arrogant.

We had had this church as a client for awhile under a different pastor, but sadly that pastor died suddenly and the church had the misfortune to hire Pastor Arrogant to replace him. When the church's policy came up for renewal, I had my first meeting with Pastor Arrogant both to introduce myself and explain the church's policies.

When I was ushered into his office I noticed an immediate change from the previous pastor. Instead of pictures of family and church activities, the walls were covered with various diplomas, certificates, and pictures of Pastor Arrogant doing different things. I immediately thought "this guy is pretty proud of himself". As soon as the conversation started it became clear that my first reaction was correct. Pomposity oozed out of the guy. He was the smartest guy in town and he wanted to make sure you knew it.

A few minutes into our rather one-sided conversation his cellphone rang and his wife was calling. I don't mind those kinds of interruptions, but he seemed to take great offense. He spoke to his wife in the most rude, condescending and disrespectful manner I've ever witnessed. I immediately developed a visceral dislike for Pastor Arrogant.

When I left the church I had already decided that I wouldn't make any special effort to retain the account. If he got a competitive quote, instead of pulling strings to try and get him a better deal, I'd let him go. That's exactly what happened. He called to tell me he had another quote, and I told him I couldn't improve our offer. He left and became somebody else's problem.

Over the next three years or so I got a couple of notes from marketing saying he wanted another quote, but I ignored them. After a few years he called in and I was kind of stuck. I set an appointment and went to meet him. When we first met he was fairly new in that church. The buildings were older and in need of upgrades and the crowd was dwindling. I figured as smart as he was that three years later he'd have a going operation down there and it might be worth taking another look at.

Wrong. He hadn't lost any of his arrogance, but he had lost something....half his congregation. The buildings weren't in any better shape, but his ego was doing just fine. To make ends meet he had taken his educational building and basically turned it into an office park for itinerant ministries. There were five other churches meeting in there including a Japanese church, an Hispanic church, a Filipino Church, a home school organization, and a church that specializes in bikers and former dopers.

I made a show of walking around and pretending to inspect the building, but I had no intention of providing a new quote for the guy. I never got back to him and he never called to check on a quote. A win-win.

I fully expect to read someday that Pastor Arrogant has lost his job due to a sex scandal. He's a textbook example of the kind of guy who ends up in those messes. If that doesn't get him his church will finally just disappear, and given that they had him for a pastor, it's probably just as well.




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Loss runs are documents prepared by insurance companies to show the claims experience of a particular client. They're often required as part of the underwriting process to make sure the prospect you're quoting isn't a complete slug. The quotes are often well underway, and sometimes the policies have already been bound before the loss runs are finally received.

We had a competitor who was well known for dragging out the process of providing loss runs to his clients. The State has a 15 business day requirement, but they often played games with those things in an effort to screw up our deal.

When I was newly licensed and undergoing my first day of cold-calling with one of the veterans we got a call from a church and school that had discovered that their insurance had cancelled weeks earlier and wouldn't be reinstated. That should have been a warning that all was not well with the account, but we dropped what we were doing and drove 45 minutes to the church to meet with the administrator.

He was fairly new on the job and when we asked about the church's loss history he said he wasn't aware of any claims. He probably wasn't, but we asked him to request a loss run from his old company and we quickly put the quote together. Within a couple of days I picked up the down payment for my very first decent sized account. I was feeling pretty lucky.

A few days later the loss run came in the mail. Unlike what the administrator had told us, there was a claim...a big one: $220,000 for an old lady who had tripped over a sprinkler head and suffered extensive injuries. I thought for sure the whole deal was going to go up in smoke.

The underwriter was not happy, but agreed to keep the account provided but take all the credits off and pile on some extra charges. The church's premium jumped something like $2,500 a year, which turned out to be a blessing - not for them, but for me. More commission. They had to have insurance and we were willing to provide it at a healthy price. Not exactly a win-win, but not bad.

Advice to churches: Order a loss run before you start shopping for bids, and don't forget to get bids every year.

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Well, they're not really stupid. I just wanted to borrow the title from Letterman's Stupid Pet Tricks.

Training (sort of)

I did not enter the church insurance field with any previous insurance or construction experience. I had been a banker, running the branch division for a small savings and loan that was gobbled up in bank consolidation frenzy of the mid-90's. With precious little training I was expected to inspect buildings, determine their overall condition, and rank them according to the complexity of their construction and cost of the materials used. Although I had had many hours of training in the nuances of various policies, there was very little actual hands-on work with buildings, construction methods, or other things that would be needed to provide an accurate cost estimate. It was pretty much on-the-job training and hope you get it right for the first year. It's a good thing nothing I insured that first year burned down.

They did send me to a two week training course at the home office after about a year on the job, and the last two days of that course were the most useful because we spent it with the loss control people who did a nice job of explaining things about building construction and quality that I hadn't gotten from the agency I worked for. I felt somewhat more prepared after that.

There was one clear lowpoint in the training I had at the home office. One afternoon we were going to have a presentation from the camp underwriter and his assistant. I had several camps in my territory so I was looking forward to hearing what the camp guy had to say, hoping I could pick up some valuable information. The camp guy and his toady showed up and for 90 minutes read us word-for-word everything that was in the camp chapter in our training manuals. No stories, special insights, or anything at all that would have made that 90 minutes interesting or worthwhile. I could have gotten just as much out of it if I had stayed at the Super 8 and read it myself. What a waste of time.

Cost Guessing

Over time agents develop various shortcuts in the process of cost estimating buildings that really save time, but they may cause some fluctuations in the calculations. You may think the process of determining replacement costs for your buildings is an exact science, but it's far from it. For instance, in the ideal world you'd measure a church building down to the inch and if there were little outcroppings or support structures that stuck out from the side, you'd measure around them and draw the diagrams accordingly. In real world all the agents I knew rounded everything up to the nearest foot and small outcroppings were ignored in favor of long straight lines. It might result in slightly more square footage and slightly higher liability costs and building value, but it made the process go much faster.

The software we had for drawing diagrams was okay for straight lines and 90 degree corners, but angles were a nightmare. I doubt if any buildings with angles other than 90 degrees were ever drawn right. In some cases the diagrams would have been unrecognizable if you were looking at the actual building, but that's what we had to use to calculate the square footage. I remember one church that had so many angles even after careful measurements I couldn't get the building to come out right in the diagram. I went out and bought a protracter to get the angles right, measured everything again and still couldn't get it right. The diagram was a mess. Lord help 'em if they had to build that place again based on my drawing.

Homes were another story. For the first several years we used a cost estimating method for dwellings that was pretty primitive. You added up the "units", each unit being a room or feature (like a porch), and then based on the zip code, came up with an estimated construction cost. It was way off from what it actually cost to build a home in Southern California and it's a wonder we didn't have more problems than we did with underinsured buildings.

The method was pretty haphazard at times as well. I was sent out with one of the long-time agents to a church in L.A. that had six homes they owned down the street from the church. I followed the agent as he walked down the street, glanced at the homes, and quickly scratched out what he thought each of them had in terms of bedrooms, living rooms, etc. He did all six homes in about 5 minutes without ever setting foot in or even walking around them. That was my training in cost estimating houses. (I also watched the same guy give an incredibly detailed presentation, recounting every story and example recommended by the boss, to the church secretary who couldn't have cared less. Her eyes kept crossing because she was so bored and completely uninterested. She acted like she had drawn the short straw because she got stuck listening to this guy. Advice to agents: Never present to anyone who can't make the decision.)

Some months before I left they came out with a new system that was probably much more accurate, but definitely much more of a pain in the butt because the new system required the agent to actually measure the house and include various details about the interior, such as the percentage of area carpeted, tiled or other types of flooring. Most of the agents had never even set foot in the houses they had insured in the past, and measuring houses can be especially difficult because you have to get in back yards and deal with dogs and landscaping and such.

One day an agent called me into his office to show me a little trick he'd figured out. Google Earth had recently come out and he discovered that by putting the address of the house in Google Earth he could pull up a satellite shot of the property. Using the scale on Google Earth he could come up with a rough diagram of the house and save himself a trip. I'm sure it wasn't completely accurate, but it was probably better than just walking down the street and guessing.

Photo Follies

Photos of houses could also be a pain. Oftentimes the homes were located well away from the church and I can remember a couple of churches that owned multiple homes in different cities. It took forever to run around and get the photos. The agent with the Google Earth trick told me that he had a solution for that, as well. He kept on his computer various pictures of homes he had taken at random over the years, and if he needed a photo of a home and didn't want to make the drive out there, he'd just use one of those. He figured the underwriters never spent much time really looking at photos of houses, and he was probably right. They apparently never noticed.

Speaking of photos, we were required to provide photos of church buildings showing all sides. In some areas, that could be a problem. What if one part of the building had graffiti on it, security bars on the windows, or a toxic waste dump next door? Underwriters didn't like that kind of stuff and could give you a lot of grief about it. An older agent told me when I first started that he had learned to be a little choosy with his photos, making sure that nothing objectionable might end up in them and ruin his deal. With the pressure to produce more and more sales, no agent was going to let a little graffiti knock his numbers down.

And then, there was the "drive by shooting". I'm sure that the underwriters wondered why some photos were a little blurred. It was probably because the agent stuck the camera out the window as he drove by without stopping. Hey, they wanted a picture so we gave them a picture (the secret was making sure to keep the rear view mirror out of the shot).

More stories later....


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