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I didn't run into too many lady preachers in my nine years of church insurance work. If I did they were usually pastoring some new age gay church, but I did have one memorable experience with a lady preacher at a black church in San Diego County.

I first met her and her husband when they called in needing insurance for their church. Their policy had lapsed with another company and their mortgage loan company was demanding a new policy. They had a clean loss history and I got underwriting approval to write the account. They paid us 25% down and we put them on a quarter payment plan.

I never had any problems with her except for one annoying thing. She decided the appropriate use of her church answering machine was to put a 3-4 minute sermon on there that you had to listen to in order to leave a message. It was incredibly annoying. Here's a little advice for churches: Nobody is going to get "saved" or dedicate themselves to your God based on your answering machine message. Keep it simple, and for Pete's sake, short.

Many months had gone by without claims or other contact when I got word from our accounting people that a "Notice of Cancellation" had been sent to the church because of non-payment. The account was way overdue and by the date they actually cancelled it the church owed over $1,000 in earned premium. We had a rule on our commission plan that any funds written off during the first year of a policy came out of the pocket of the agent, so I was looking at a $1,000 loss because of these idiots. The collection efforts carried over into the Christmas season and fortunately, the account wasn't written off right before the holidays.

Then, we had a little stroke of providence. While I was on my Christmas vacation I got a call from the lady preacher. She apologized for the problems and said she wanted to get her policy reinstated. I made a few calls and we agreed to rewrite her package provided that she pay us the full amount of earned premium owed on the previous policy, plus 25% down on the new one. She sent a check in right away and I thanked my lucky stars. Not only did it save me $1,000, but it gave me a new business at the start of the year and more commission on a future check.

A few days into the year I had to go to Texas for a quick personal trip, and on my last day there I got a phone message from the office that the lady preacher had called in and changed her mind. She no longer wanted the new policy from us (she had gone back to her previous company since they had a better offer) and she wanted her money back...not just the down payment, but all the money including the $1,000 we had applied to her debt. That got a good laugh.

I went straight to the office from the airport and huddled with the powers-that-be and we decided that we were fully in our rights to retain the amount owed on the debt, but would cancel the new policy without charge and refund the down payment.

That didn't sit well with Ms. Lady Preacher. She called up and got all over me, claiming we were stealing her money and she had a right to have it back. When that approach didn't work she tried a new tack - she promised that if we sent all her money back she'd pay off that amount that was due as soon as she could. I told her that wouldn't be necessary because she no longer owed us anything. She had paid it off. *CLICK!*

The next day I got an email from some guy who claimed to represent the church and he reiterated her demand for payment of all her funds. He obviously wasn't an attorney since no attorney would send a demand letter by email, and it certainly wasn't written that well. I politely told him to go pound sand.

That was end of my experience with that lady preacher, and that church went on our "do not write" list forever.

Related Tags: Church Insurance, Church Mutual Insurance, GuideOne Insurance, Brotherhood Insurance, Philadelphia Insurance, Church Mutual, GuideOne, Insurance For Religious Organizations, Insurance For Churches, Church Insurance Programs, Church Insurance Agent

One of the frustrating things about working in the church insurance business was dealing with liars and cheats. You wouldn't expect that from a group that is allegedly working for the good of the church, but every industry has its black sheep. Sadly, some of those dealings involved people I worked with or for, but most had to do with a particular competitor. I've already detailed some of his antics in the Mr. Big Bible the Dumpster Diver post.

For those who are not familiar with the insurance business, there are different ways to rate different risks. A building will fall into one of a number of categories depending on the age, construction type, condition, presence of sprinklers, etc. In the same way liability rates for a particular building are determined by usage and are rated using different factors. Church classrooms, offices, sanctuaries, etc. are considered "Church" and the rating basis used is square footage regardless of membership or attendance. Schools and preschool are rated according to the number of students, regardless of square footage. A large church building with only a few members can really get hit for liability because of the square footage while a large school building with only a few students can make out like a bandit. It's a far from perfect system.

Mixed use buildings are supposed to be rated according to the percentage of each risk present, and that method is ripe for abuse. I'll give you a real life example.

I was quoting a large synagogue in San Diego that had multiple fire-resistive masonry sprinkled buildings - the absolute best kind of buildings to insure because of the low risk of fire. They were very large which meant the liability charges were going to be pretty steep, but the construction allowed me to pile on the credits (an explanation of credits can be found in this post) and dramatically reduce the premium. The largest of the buildings was about 18,000 square feet - 17,000 of which were classrooms and offices, and the remaining 1,000 square feet a small preschool with 30 students. According to underwriting rules the liability would be calculated using 17,000 square feet at the "Church" rate and 30 students at the "Preschool" rate (there are other liability charges that apply, but those are the big ones).

When I met with the church to present the proposal they brought out their existing policy and I was shocked to see that despite the huge credits I was still thousands of dollars over their pricing. I started digging into their existing policy to look at see how the charges were calculated and quickly discovered the pricing shenanigans that Mr. Big Bible was using to keep this policy's pricing so low. On the building I described above, he had rated (for liability) the entire building as "Preschool", using only the small student count, totally ignoring the 17,000 square feet that was not used for the preschool. His liability charge was a tiny fraction of mine. Bottom line - he was cheating.

He was cheating not only his competitors, but his own company. By under reporting the liability for that building he lowered his premium and denied his company the funds they should have collected for the liability issues they faced at that property. Had that policy been audited by his company or the State, he would have been facing big problems.

Oh, except for one thing. Mr. Big Bible had been doing this kind of stuff for years with the company's blessing. We had seen numerous examples over the years where square footages or student counts were under reported. Some were absolutely laughable, but Mr. Big Bible was pretty much bulletproof because he had a good relationship with the company's bigwigs and produced so much business that they were willing to look the other way when he cheated. Keep in mind, this was one of the nation's largest church insurers that was condoning this unethical activity.

I had an early run-in with Mr. Big Bible during my first year or so in the business. We saw a quote he had done for one of our clients, and in this quote he had understated student counts at their large Christian school to lower the premium. My boss decided to call him on it and drafted a harsh letter to the church detailing what he was doing. The boss asked me to review the letter and make any revisions I might think are necessary.

The letter was poorly written, angry, and very likely actionable in the accusations it made. I took his poor start, rewrote it to tone it down a bit, and with his approval, sent it to the customer. The customer passed it on to Mr. Big Bible who promptly demanded an apology or else legal action would be taken. Of course, Mr. Leave Alone Slap (the boss) immediately jumped all over me, even though I probably saved him a sure lawsuit had that first draft of the letter been sent. I should have seen that coming, but I was still fairly new to the agency and hadn't had the opportunity to see what a poor manager he really was.

To our credit, we refused to play the pricing games that Mr. Big Bible played, but that decision cost us a lot of money over the years. Meanwhile, his company turned a blind eye to clearly unethical and possibly illegal behavior, and his clients stuck with him thinking him to be an honorable Christian businessman.

He was just another liar and cheat.

Related Tags: Church Insurance, Church Mutual Insurance, GuideOne Insurance, Brotherhood Insurance, Philadelphia Insurance, Church Mutual, GuideOne, Insurance For Religious Organizations, Insurance For Churches, Church Insurance Programs, Church Insurance Agent

Part of being in the church insurance business was dealing with every kind of church, including many which were pretty much cults. There are a lot of strange beliefs out there and we insured them all. As an evangelical Christian I always felt a little weird going into those places, and one thing that surprised me was the way the company handled group insurance programs for those churches.

In Southern California we did not have group discount programs, voluntary or mandatory, for most of the mainstream denominations. We didn't have a Southern Baptist program, a Nazarene program, a Methodist program, an Evangelical Lutheran program, a Presbyterian program, etc. However, we did have discount programs for Unitarian Universalists, Unity Churches, Religious Science, Christian Science, Apostolic Assembly, and a number of other offbeat denominations. If you ran a cult, we probably had a discount program for you that would save you money on your insurance, but if you had a mainstream church, good luck.

I remember going to a Unity Church one time and the administrator gave me his card. I wish I still had it because it pretty much demonstrated what's wrong with most of these churches. The church's motto was "One God, Many Paths", and the logo looked like they'd taken the symbols for all the major world religions and had thrown them in a blender. It had a Christian cross, a Jewish Star of David, a Muslim Crescent, and several other symbols of world religions. I can't tell you how many times I wanted to look him right in the eye and ask him how he explains John 14:6-

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. (KJV)

I never did since insurance is a business and not a ministry, but it was tempting.

I only insured two Muslim groups during my years in the business, and one of them was a large mosque in San Diego that left our company the year before the 9/11 attacks. It was reported later that some of the 9/11 attackers had attended that mosque for awhile, and following the attacks I read about reports of vandalism at that mosque.

I remember having meetings at the mosque a couple of times, and I've never felt more out-of-place than I did in those mosques. The men glared at me like the infidel I was, and entering through their doors was like taking a time machine back hundreds of years and half a world away. It wasn't a pleasant experience.

I also handled several Buddhist temples. Nice people, but way out there in their beliefs. One of the churches had over $1.5 million in gold statues and icons in their sanctuary area. The building itself was old and pretty dumpy but when you walked into that sanctuary you thought you'd entered the vault at Fort Knox. That valuation was made several years ago when gold was around $350 an ounce. I'd hate to think what all that would be worth today.

My favorite (with tongue firmly in cheek) group program was for a Hispanic denomination based in Southern California that was granted a 7.5% discount for all their member churches. Most of the churches were in bad shape (the congregants were often low income), they rarely remembered to pay their premiums and many of them were canceled for non-payment time and again, and yet we gave them a discount that the nice Southern Baptist church down the street couldn't have. It never made sense to me. Without that group program many of their churches probably wouldn't have met the underwriting requirements due to the condition of their buildings or their history of non-payment problems.

The topper was when the District Superintendent in San Diego County decided to ignore his denominational headquarters and struck his own insurance deal with a competitor of ours. He then encouraged his churches to leave our company for the competitor as soon as their next premium was due. What a nice payback for the big group discount program. That was money well spent.

The Religious Science, Christian Science, and many of the Unitarian or Unity churches all had one thing in common (besides a nutty theology) - they're dying. The membership of most of those churches that I dealt with was made up of people with an average age of 75. Members in their 60's (if they had any) were part of the youth group. These churches are barely hanging on and since they seem to be unable to attract the young families needed to sustain a church, many of them will disappear in the next 10 years or so.

However, even meeting in a mainstream church could be a weird experience. I had a meeting one day at a very conservative Baptist church in San Diego. The pastor was wearing a black suit, white shirt, and had a very short haircut. After our meeting he asked me if I was a Christian. I told him I was and he asked what church I attended. When I told him I attended Saddleback Church he turned a little whiter (if that was possible) and started grabbing for gospel tracts. Saddleback clearly didn't meet with his requirements for Christianity and he was determined to get me "saved". I'm not sure how I made it out of there without being dunked in his baptistry.

Bottom line - if you want to get to heaven, embrace the faith of an evangelical Christian church. If you want a discount on your church insurance (at least from my old company), join a cult.

Related Tags: Church Insurance, Church Mutual Insurance, GuideOne Insurance, Brotherhood Insurance, Philadelphia Insurance, Church Mutual, GuideOne, Insurance For Religious Organizations, Insurance For Churches, Church Insurance Programs, Church Insurance Agent

Now, before I go any further, let me just say that I’m not trying to imply here that the church insurance business is more unsavory than any other insurance business. You’ll find these same things going on with any insurance company. However, churches tend to put more trust than they should in church insurance companies just because they work primarily with churches. That trust will cost you a lot of money.

And some agents understand all too well that they can take advantage of that trust. While most of people who work in that business are probably fine, upstanding citizens, there are also some problem children out there. I’ll give you an example – we’ll call him Mr. Big Bible. Mr. Big Bible worked for a competitor and was known to show up for his appointments with pastors and church boards with a big bible under his arm, even though there was no business purpose whatsoever to have a bible in an insurance meetings. From some of the stories I heard he put on a pretty good show, praying before the meeting and working in the appropriate Godly language. He probably would have preached the Sunday service if they asked him.

Unfortunately, his customers and potential customers didn’t have the whole picture of Mr. Big Bible. You see, at the same time he was leading board members in prayer he was also secretly hiring people to come to our office after hours and dig through our dumpster to find reports and other paperwork with information about our clients. Unfortunately, it hadn’t ever occurred to anyone that paperwork like that should be shredded, so Mr. Big Bible was able over a period of time to amass quite a library of important information. He not only had names and addresses of church clients, but he had their policy expiration dates, premiums, and even specific coverages.

He would then send his agents to those churches to offer quotes, and of course they’d come in like the insurance version of King Solomon, wise in the ways of insurance. They’d try not to be completely obvious by saying things like “normally when we see a policy from that company it has A, B & C at these limits (that are lower than ours), and doesn’t have X, Y and Z that we include”. Sure enough, the customer would pull out their policy and everything the agent said was right on the money. They were freaking geniuses! An awful lot of business was lost to Mr. Big Bible before one of his minions tipped off the program and a lawsuit and big dollar settlement (not to mention a contract with a shredding company) brought it all to a close. Of course, all the money went to the agency owners and not a dime trickled down to the agents who had lost hundreds or thousands of dollars in commissions due to the agency's failure to protect important customer information.

My advice, if an agent walks into your office carrying a big Bible, throw him out. He’s just using it to gain your trust and get your money. And even if he doesn’t walk in carrying a big bible, remember why he’s there. He doesn’t work for a charity.

Related Tags: Church Insurance, Church Mutual Insurance, GuideOne Insurance, Brotherhood Insurance, Philadelphia Insurance, Church Mutual, GuideOne, Insurance For Religious Organizations, Insurance For Churches, Church Insurance Programs, Church Insurance Agent

Here's a rare success story involving a start-up church. Back in about 1999 I got a call from a lady who was the treasurer for a brand new start-up church in South San Diego County that needed insurance in order to rent a school for their Sunday services. I drove to her home and sat at the kitchen table to fill out the paperwork with her and her pastor. I probably did 20 of these a year and most of them never got beyond the struggling congregation stage where they started.
A year or so later she called again, this time to tell me that they had decided to lease some office space for the church staff because the church was growing and they couldn't run it out of her kitchen anymore. Something was going right down there.

Another two or three years passed and she called again. A multi-plex theater building in her city had come available and the church had grown so much they wanted to buy it. It had formerly housed eight theaters and was a very large building valued at more than $2 million dollars. They bought that building, gutted and rebuilt it for the use of their church and the people continued to come in droves. Another building came available next to the former theater, so they bought that. They brought in portable classrooms to handle the overflow. The church now had an attendance of more than 1,500.

About a year before I left the business I had my annual meeting with the pastor and the treasurer, and during the meeting I mentioned how proud I was of the success the church had achieved and how rare it was for a start-up to grow into a megachurch as they had done. He was so thrilled with my comments that he asked me to stay a few minutes longer and speak to the entire church staff at their scheduled staff meeting. I repeated my praise for the staff and could tell they genuinely appreciated the comments.

During my nine years I can only remember four churches that went from a start-up to owning their own church property. Most just struggled along or disappeared. If you're thinking of starting up a new church, it is possible to build it into something amazing, but the odds are against you. Maybe this story will be an encouragement.

Related Tags: Church Insurance, Church Mutual Insurance, GuideOne Insurance, Brotherhood Insurance, Philadelphia Insurance, Church Mutual, GuideOne, Insurance For Religious Organizations, Insurance For Churches, Church Insurance Programs, Church Insurance Agent

I'm not sure there's a school in Orange County that doesn't have a church in it on Sunday. When I was writing church insurance I probably wrote 20-25 policies a year for churches renting school space. Why? Does the world really need another struggling church meeting in a building they don't own and with little chance of every growing out of that situation?

Certainly there are many people who have no church affiliation and might benefit from all these dinky congregations, but at the same time there are many church properties sitting idle much of the week, and sitting nearly empty on the weekend, that could be used much more efficiently and to better effect. Are all these pastors of start-up churches called to start a new ministry, or perhaps is it an effort based more on ego than evangelism?

I remember getting a call to quote a large Southern Baptist church in San Diego - large in buildings, anyway. I met with the administrator who told me the church, with an 800 seat auditorium and a nice 2-story educational building, hadn't had a pastor for some time and was now down to about 10 members with an average age of about 75. The church at one time was a thriving community, but cutbacks in the military and changes in the neighborhood had taken their congregation away. The only thing keeping this church afloat was the Christian school that leased their property during the week. The old folks didn't want to change anything they did to attract younger members. They had become a "holy huddle".

Not far from there was a start-up church that had grown very well and was running about 250 in rented school facilities. I half-jokingly told the pastor that he should take all of his people and go join that Southern Baptist church. Once they were members they could vote the old farts off the board and take over the church and it's property. They'd certainly make better use of it than the old people were. I guess you could call that a "holy hostile takeover".

He didn't do it, but he should have. Wasting a church property in the way those old Southern Bapists did is almost blasphemy.

Related Tags: Church Insurance, Church Mutual Insurance, GuideOne Insurance, Brotherhood Insurance, Philadelphia Insurance, Church Mutual, GuideOne, Insurance For Religious Organizations, Insurance For Churches, Church Insurance Programs, Church Insurance Agent